Another objection occurred to me while I was putting my son to bed. A Dispensationalist might argue that the church is not national Israel. Gentiles do not come under the Law like Israel did. During this church age Gentiles are under Grace and during the Millennial Reign Christ will reestablish the Jewish nation with her laws.
Now this objection is something that is based firmly in a theological method or interpretational hermeneutic approach to Scripture. I think however that Covenantal Theology is far more consistent. I believe that there are not 2 peoples of God. Nor do I believe that Hebrews 8 merely allows for the participation of Gentiles in the New Covenant blessings.
The New Testament very specifically teaches that Gentiles are not merely participants in the New Covenant Blessings but are fully under the New Covenant. The reason they are full participants is because Gentiles and Jews have been united together and are the true Israel of God.
According to Ephesians chapter 2, Gentiles have been brought near. Near to what?
Eph 2:12 remember that you were at that time separate from Christ, excluded from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world.
Eph 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus you who formerly were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ.
Gentiles are brought near to Christ, brought near to covenant promises, have hope, with God and are now brought into the Commonwealth of Israel. As Paul says in Romans 11, they are grafted into the one stump. Gentiles are now the true Jews, circumcised in the heart.
Therefore, whatever would have applied to the Jew, now applies to those Gentiles grafted in. The Jewish person in the days of the Apostles would have fully recognized the Law as still being valid. Even Peter struggled with the application of the Law in Acts 10 when he would not eat unclean foods. Jesus had repealed dietary laws not only for Gentiles, but for Jews too! Are we really going to argue that Peter would have not believed the Decalogue and the rest of the Mosaic Law that reflected the moral law of God was now done away?
4 comments:
I think however that Covenantal Theology is far more consistent.
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Russ: You are trying to prove that tithing applies to the church by continuing the entire Mosaic Law. This is the part of Covenant Theology that is self-contradictory. Tithing was clearly a part of the ceremonial statutes which all Covenant Theologians discard. Also please show me where Calvin taught tithing.
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I believe that there are not 2 peoples of God. Nor do I believe that Hebrews 8 merely allows for the participation of Gentiles in the New Covenant blessings.
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Russ: Yes you do. In the Old Testament during the Old Covenant (part of the one law everlasting covenant) you teach that God dealt with national Israel differently than the way he dealt with the rest of the world. The Law was a boundary line, a fence, around national Israel and God told them not to share their covenant with anybody else. Thus 2 peoples and two different ways of dealing with them. How were Gentiles saved in the Old Covenant?
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The New Testament very specifically teaches that Gentiles are not merely participants in the New Covenant Blessings but are fully under the New Covenant.
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Russ: True and agreed. Both are saved by grace through faith alone apart from works of the Mosaic Law. You forget that the church councils of Acts 15 and 21 expressly release the Gentiles from any obligation to observe the Mosaic Law. Why? I thought you said the Law was the same in the Old and New Covenant. In Acts 21:20-21 the Jewish Christians in Jerusalem are still “zealous of the law” and most likely still paying their tithes to the Temple system. You do not want to deal with those problems.
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The reason they are full participants is because Gentiles and Jews have been united together and are the true Israel of God.
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Russ: They are united in the one Body of Christ. And –don’t forget--- they are united because the Mosaic Law, that wall which separated Jews and Gentiles, has been broken down per Ephesians 2, Colossians 2 and Hebrews 7:18 and 10:1.
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According to Ephesians chapter 2, Gentiles have been brought near. Near to what? Eph 2:12 remember that you were at that time separate from Christ, excluded from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world.
Eph 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus you who formerly were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ.
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Russ: Don’t stop there. Look at the HOW they were “brought near by the blood of Christ.”
Eph 2:14-16 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby.” They are not reconciled into your “commonwealth of Israel.” No, they are reconciled into the one body of Christ. It seems like the context destroys your argument!!!
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As Paul says in Romans 11, they are grafted into the one stump. Gentiles are now the true Jews, circumcised in the heart.
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Russ: Yes, but that does not destroy the hundreds of unconditional promises made to national Israel. Rom 11:29 “for the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.” Once a promise is made by God, he keeps it. One can be in the same family, have the same parents, receive the same lifestyle and still receive different inheritance rights such as the firstborn in the Old Testament. As strict predestinationists it goes completely against the grain for Covenant Theologians to NOT apply their salvation hermeneutic to unconditional promises in the Old Testament. Instead they apply an Arminian hermeneutic to national Israel.
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Therefore, whatever would have applied to the Jew, now applies to those Gentiles grafted in.
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Russ: I do not apply the Mosaic Law to Jews since Jesus said “It is finished.” According to the way I understand Galatians, chapter 3, the Mosaic Law is now out of the picture and God is now blessing all Christians according to the promises he made to Abraham before the Law.
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The Jewish person in the days of the Apostles would have fully recognized the Law as still being valid.
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Russ: Thanks for proving my point. That means ALL of the Law, including its ceremonial statutes and ordinances along with mandatory tithing to support the Temple system. However, however, however –they were WRONG! That is the sad story of the Jewish Christian church in Acts 15 and 21 which later rejected Paul altogether and drifted into legalistic apostasy.
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Even Peter struggled with the application of the Law in Acts 10 when he would not eat unclean foods.
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Russ: God needed to point out to Peter that the Mosaic Law’s distinction of clean and unclean had been CHANGED. (Therefore the one dot rule applies from Mt 5:17-19).
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Are we really going to argue that Peter would have not believed the Decalogue and the rest of the Mosaic Law that reflected the moral law of God was now done away?
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Russ: New covenant, new constitution, new beginning, new creations in Christ, new perfect blood sacrifice, new priesthood, new application of the Ten Commandments –emphasis on NEW.
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Neither Jesus nor the Apostles repealed the moral laws of God.
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Russ: This is my argument, not yours! Why are you saying this? Have you decided to agree with me? However, the moral laws are interwoven throughout the entire Mosaic Law.
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They are not only still in force; they are now applied under the New Covenant with Christ fulfilling them in our behalf. The Christian has this law written upon his heart by Christ. He s joined to Christ by faith and in perfect union with Him even though in this age we live imperfectly.
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Russ: My point exactly. Now stop this foolishness of saying that the Old Covenant Mosaic Law and the New Covenant law are one and the same. Only the moral law applies to Christians.
Russell Earl Kelly, author
"This is my argument, not yours! Why are you saying this? Have you decided to agree with me? However, the moral laws are interwoven throughout the entire Mosaic Law."
Sir, I do not wish to belabor evey point again, unless you wish to move to a BBS. I have said it several times. The law written on man's heart was applied to the Old Covenant people along with particular laws that pertained to them. Either way we are both being inconsistent if I accept your view. For as I closed before, not one jot shall be done away until heaven and earth pass away. Simply saying "It is finished" doesn't do away with that verse.
We probably agree more than you realize because you are not seeing what I am saying. You have equated Law with Covenant. That is simply not the case. I said several times that the Law that is applied to Old Testament Israel is now being applied to the New Covenant people. It is applied differently but it will not pass away until heaven and earth do.
Yes,"It is finished." Jesus has removed the dividing wall between Jews and Gentiles. If however, you really believe that, then it is the Jewish/Gentile church/Israel that will inherit all of the promises that are not yet fulfilled.
For example, the land promise (which I believe was fulfilled in one sense) will be inherited by the church/Israel. Jesus tells us the promise is the whole earth, not just a strip of land.
I highly suggest Sam Waldron's recent rebuttal Blog series against John MacArthur's dispensational/premill position (that John gave at this year's Shepherd's conference).
Perhaps this may clear some things up as to your understanding of what is being said.
"Thus 2 peoples and two different ways of dealing with them. How were Gentiles saved in the Old Covenant?"
Sir, I am not a dispy. Gentiles must come to have the faith of Abraham. In that dispensation God made provisions for such a thing. One example would have been Rahab.
Although there are specific instances of gentile conversion, nations were not blessed with salvation during that time. I am not some kind of inclusivist. If that sounds harsh, then so be it.
"They are not reconciled into your “commonwealth of Israel.” No, they are reconciled into the one body of Christ. It seems like the context destroys your argument!!!"
I agree they are reconciled by Christ's blood into the One Body. The text specifically says they are brought near to he commonwealth of Israel. They (the gentiles) are now just as circumcised and the Jew who is not circumcised in heart is considered a gentile. I am not really sure how you arrive at thinking I would disagree with union into one body? This just seems to be more evidence you have misunderstood what you think you know.
Anyway, your point seems to be that I still believe the Law under the Mosaic economy is to be enforce today just as it was then. You are confused as to what a CT believes. So if you want to continue this, let us go to a BBS where we may actually see entire posts instead of this formatt.
God Bless
If this doesn't work for you then please find something else.
http://pub7.bravenet.com/forum/551833608
Actually, if you are as bright and capable of challenging the best in Reformed thought, Richard Barcellos has been writing a series on the Sabbath. Why not comment there? I have found him very willing to discuss these things.
http://www.mctsowensboro.org/blog/
Russ
Just to make sure I have understood CT properly, I have contacted some pastor friends before I go any further.
I would hate to be explaining something that I think I understand as well as the really smart guys.
For instance, there are times when moral laws are applied under the Old Covenant in a ceremonial way. The Sabbath is a well known example. This is why I have tried to explain that the Law does not = Covenant. If it did, we would all run into more problems.
:-)
God Bless
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