What troubles me is how we seem to divorce the preaching of the gospel from the church. So much talk is about "getting outside of the walls of the builiding", that we seem to go beyond not only the walls but the context of the Scriptural meaning of the church itself. I'd like to know how proper evangelism can seemingly be done in any setting whatsoever when Scripture defines the purpose of evangelism is to glorify God. Instead we have made evangelism merely about getting people into heaven by the skin of their teeth. There seems to be no sense of calling out of this world, no sense of Pastoral oversight (almost anyone can start their own ministry outside of a local body of believers), no accountability to any local body. The idea of repentance is an alien idea in modern Evanjellyism today.
Notice this portion of the article below:
We went on this tour across America, and we're going again this year. Last year we went to 38 cities in two months. There were 15,000 people who signed a card saying that they accepted Jesus as their personal Lord and Savior during the tour.
SBC LIFE: How are you following up with these people who committed their lives to Christ?
NOLAN: We've entered the names of all those who made decisions into a database and given them to churches that do the FAITH [Sunday School-based evangelistic] ministry. And those people are going back to those homes, knocking on the doors, saying, "We heard about your decision you made at Casting Crowns. And we just came to follow up.
I am glad that there may be "follow up", but the presumption seems to be optional. Church is something that comes after one is "saved" but is not necessary. The idea of pastors and preaching and accountability and being joined to a local body of believers is just not in the vocabulary of many evangelists today. The fact we have to join evangelism with entertainment is only a symptom of our thinking.
This reminds me of the "Jesus is my Savior but not Lord" argument that seemed to rage in the early 90s. If we can just get them to sign a card, walk the isle, pray the sinner's prayer, then we can "chalk 'em up for the kingdom".
Numbers may make an evangelist look good, but salvation is far more than a "tip of the hat". It is a way of life. God elects sinners by His sovereign grace for a purpose. That purpose must be loudly proclaimed from the pulpits once again.
7 comments:
Any time I hear evangelistic reports of numbers, I think of one of my favorite quotes: "Data lies."
Statistics like these are meaningless. Out of 1500 signatures, it could very well be that not one of those people has entered the Kingdom of God. It could also be that every one of them was already visibly in. And between the poles are 1500 unique shades, one for each specific person who must give an account to his or her Maker.
Are the evangelists helping the Kingdom? Probably -- God does make use of weak vessels. But it would be nice to see evangelists embrace a more Spirit-minded approach, rather than taking marketing cues from modern consumerism.
Forester, I agree. I think we are in a consumer attitude about evangelism. We expect people to get saved today. Nobody wants to take the time and effort to do proper evangelization.
What I mean is that sometimes the Spirit may wait years to bless us with the fruits of our labors. We want to see people get saved now without having built the solid foundation of bringing men to see their true need.
I agree that God may draw a straight line with my crooked ruler. But I think as a church we should always be ever reforming. This should include our evangelistic methods. In doing this, churches with their pastor's leadership may bring far more solid converts in the long run.
It was great to read your comments. Do you care to listen to the message that I preached? Remember, this is an article written by someone who interviewed me. All that we discussed was not printed. That was stated at the front of that article. Anyways, in my message, the whole reason I tell people that they need salvation is because they are not living for the glory of God. They have infected hearts and the infection is a sinful nature that is bent on living for the glory of self. We were created to live for the glory of God, and through the finished work on the Cross, Christ has made a way of salvation, namely we can now live to bring God glory.
I am real tired tonight, but that is the big picture of what I share.
Can I ask you a question, why were there no words of praise for the Glory that God gets when His chosen people make the connection? It just seemed a bit rude. Let’s try and enjoy Jesus and maybe those who are watching you will want what you have. Then they can start giving God glory as well. Is God getting any glory from a bunch of people screaming that others are not doing "the bring God glory thing" the way they think is the only way it ought to be done.
Enjoying Jesus
Tony Nolan
Howdy Mr.Nolan,
Thanks for your comments. I am amazed that anyone would even read this Blog.
"Can I ask you a question, why were there no words of praise for the Glory that God gets when His chosen people make the connection? It just seemed a bit rude."
I would hate for you to think I was being rude. I agreed with Forester that God may certainly use you to call men to Himself. So it may sound spiritual to point out that I didn't jump up and down when someone came to Christ through your preaching, but the point of the post was discussing Biblical means of evangelism.
" Is God getting any glory from a bunch of people screaming that others are not doing "the bring God glory thing" the way they think is the only way it ought to be done."
I didn't realize I was screaming. I was simply discussing and raising questions about what God teaches in the Scriptures as to the nature of evangelism.
I am not saying that we have to do evangelism in the traditional way. In fact, I like the fact you have the opportunity to proclaim the gospel.
The point of the post was that we seem to be willing to do evangelism in any fashion and see numbers as the basis for success and what are the means of bringing people into the church (if at all)?
The idea that after a concert, you have time to proclaim the gospel and get a bunch of hyped up teenagers to come "forward" is not evangelism. It is Finneyism.
Men should be called by the Gospel during times of thoughtfulness and reflection. Entertainment mixed with Gospel preaching is pseudo-intellectualism.
Can God use that? He most certainly can, and I praise God for using "weak vessels" as Forester said.
Well hello again, thank you for your reply to my post. Let me go through some of your comments for the purpose of understanding and growing.
1)"I didn't realize I was screaming. I was simply discussing and raising questions about what God teaches in the Scriptures as to the nature of evangelism."
We can scream with out raising the volume of our voices. We can scream through intent. It seemed that your intent was to be critical not constructional. Hence, the scream thing.
2)"So it may sound spiritual to point out that I didn't jump up and down when someone came to Christ through your preaching,"
Not only did it sound spiritual but I hope it was a spiritual thought. It just seems that as I listen to what the church is saying on their Blogs, there is a lot of cynical talk and not enough celebration of God advancing His Kingdom for His glory.
3)"...the nature of evangelism."
Why the nature of Evangelsim? It is a call to do not something we are to merely define. Right? Tell me what you mean by nature?
4) "The point of the post was that we seem to be willing to do evangelism in any fashion and see numbers as the basis for success and what are the means of bringing people into the church (if at all)?"
Are you judging us, in that you think that we have the numbers thing going as a reference point for success? Really the success is that we are obeying an Eph. 2:10 moment that God ordained for us to walk in. But we do have a follow up plan and it was mentioned in the article. Churches are going door to door, they are inviting these people to come and grow as followers of Christ.
5)"The idea that after a concert, you have time to proclaim the gospel and get a bunch of hyped up teenagers to come "forward" is not evangelism. It is Finneyism."
Define it as you will, but they are not hyped up, by the way have you been to one of the Concerts? The Music is not seen as Enetertainment, but it is done in the spirit of 2 Chronicles 20. Where God used Music as a tool for warfare to acomplish His will. Anyways, I preach in the middle of the concert. Also the ages range for 72 to 8 that have made decisions for Jesus. We have all ages come. Exciting! And Mark Hall is a Youth Pastor at his Church. We have a meeting at the Concert where we meet with Youth Leaders and pray over them to encourage them to keep pressing on in the face of a discouraging Culture. You really need to come and see what we do, I think you are thinking that we are just another Nashville Act.
6)"Men should be called by the Gospel during times of thoughtfulness and reflection. Entertainment mixed with Gospel preaching is pseudo-intellectualism."
So, that presupposes they are not being thoughtful and reflective about what I or any of the Artist have said. Do you a idea about how long someone should reflect? Are you saying that you know for certain that they had no reflecting going on before or at the Concert? Could be that we were just one moment in a Lifetime of moments that God has been doing in their lives to bring them to Himself. Have you ever heard Nicole Nordamen or Casting Crowns lyrics? It’s thoughful to say the least. No Rockstars on this tour. And deeply relective.
7) "Can God use that? He most certainly can, and I praise God for using "weak vessels" as Forester said."
Here is where we are on the same page. I am weak, and I praise God for the sacred honor to serve Him for His glory.
May the Lord bless you!
Enjoying Jesus
Tony Nolan
tony@tonynolan.org
Howdy Again,
I am glad for the dialogue and am amazed that someone like yourself would even want to comment on this Blog. I'd like to go back over your new post for the same purpose you stated. I am obviously not being clear. Therefore I take responsibility for any misunderstandings.
1)"We can scream with out raising the volume of our voices. We can scream through intent. It seemed that your intent was to be critical not constructional. Hence, the scream thing."
Since when is taking a critical approach a bad thing? Why is it a problem when someone attempts to evaluate someone else's position from a Biblical perspective?
I think that quite often it is the one crying "foul", who usually the one screaming. This Blog is so remote and only read by some friends, that there could hardly be anything here considered screaming. Frankly I am amazed you found it and took time to respond.
I am probably of a different theology than yourself, hence you think anyone who would oppose what you see as evangelism as "screaming".
2)"Not only did it sound spiritual but I hope it was a spiritual thought. It just seems that as I listen to what the church is saying on their Blogs, there is a lot of cynical talk and not enough celebration of God advancing His Kingdom for His glory."
Again, you are assuming what "advancing His Kingdom" means and how God calls us to do that work. The original Blog was not really about you. I was simply addressing an issue.
3)"Why the nature of Evangelsim? It is a call to do not something we are to merely define. Right? Tell me what you mean by nature? "
God is the one who defines the church. God is the one who defines the means of evangelism. The idea of going into all nations and getting people to walk an isle after emotional manipulation is not Matt 28's command.
I realize you don't see it as such. We will just have to disagree.
4) "Are you judging us, in that you think that we have the numbers thing going as a reference point for success? Really the success is that we are obeying an Eph. 2:10 moment that God ordained for us to walk in. But we do have a follow up plan and it was mentioned in the article. Churches are going door to door, they are inviting these people to come and grow as followers of Christ."
I do not even wish to pretend I know your intentions. I am glad you see follow up as necessary. Again, the Blog was not all about you.
There are great articles on unregenerate church membership within the SBC. My argument was that our evangelism is mainly man centered (make a decision, music, walk the isle, sign a card...), instead of relying upon the Spirit to convert the heart through the preaching of the Word in a consistent and godly manner.
5)"Define it as you will, but they are not hyped up, by the way have you been to one of the Concerts? The Music is not seen as Enetertainment, but it is done in the spirit of 2 Chronicles 20. Where God used Music as a tool for warfare to acomplish His will.
Music has been a tool for revivalists for a looooooooong time. I believe it is manipulation. To contrast 2 Chron 20 with evangelism goes to show our differences in how we approach Scripture.
I must freely admit I was saved in a church that used exciting music. For me however it was not the music that saved me. It was the consistent preaching that occured.
"Anyways, I preach in the middle of the concert. Also the ages range for 72 to 8 that have made decisions for Jesus. We have all ages come. Exciting! And Mark Hall is a Youth Pastor at his Church. We have a meeting at the Concert where we meet with Youth Leaders and pray over them to encourage them to keep pressing on in the face of a discouraging Culture. You really need to come and see what we do, I think you are thinking that we are just another Nashville Act."
I have seen things similar to what you are describing. I am glad you are working hard to bring people to Christ. I in no way meant that only teenagers get saved.
6)"So, that presupposes they are not being thoughtful and reflective about what I or any of the Artist have said. Do you a idea about how long someone should reflect?"
I am only speaking generally. So you have misunderstood what I wrote. If the Spirit desires to save someone in an instant that is wonderful. Usually however, we have to do a lot of work. A lot of preaching and living consistently before the Spirit chooses to give life. We however want people saved now. We seem to be willing to get conversions, even if the Spirit has not actually given life yet. This is dangerous. We should not be making instant conversions but seeking regenerated people throught the power of the Gospel itself.
"Are you saying that you know for certain that they had no reflecting going on before or at the Concert?"
Nope. Not saying that at all. As I SAID, God most certainly may use you.
"Could be that we were just one moment in a Lifetime of moments that God has been doing in their lives to bring them to Himself."
YUP! Praise the Lord he would use you in that way.
"Have you ever heard Nicole Nordamen or Casting Crowns lyrics? It’s thoughful to say the least. No Rockstars on this tour. And deeply relective."
I love Third Day myself. I think music and movies could most certainly help form a culture that is more able to receive the preached Word of God.
7) "Here is where we are on the same page. I am weak, and I praise God for the sacred honor to serve Him for His glory."
May the Lord use conversations like this to cause God's people to reflect on His prescribed ways of calling His people to Himself.
God Bless
Howard
Howard,
this has been very refreshing. I hope many get to read the posts. I love to think about things that really matter. You helped me to do that. We may be different, but I hear the Spirit in the heart of your words. I am counting on you to pray for us and our efforts for the Lord. I sure hope that we can stay in touch.
On a personal note, I was just told I have a heart problem. Lift me up and my Family, would you please? May our great and awesome God bless you real good today!
Tony
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